Gothic Council vs. Marilyn Manson

Categories: Gothtopia

Sarah Fanning: I certainly don't classify Manson as goth. I agree with the dark glam nu-metal classification. And I agree that he is a marketing genius. I also dislike most of his rabid fans.

That said, I do enjoy some of his songs once in a while, and I really appreciated his response to the Columbine shooting and being accused as a contributing factor to the awful incident.

Alethea Carr: My wrath and resentment of Marilyn Manson -- and the effects he has had on our little society, the way he at the height of his popularity caused us to be perceived, and the misguided attitudes of the vast majority of his young fans -- are so profound I can't even talk about it. I get all stabby inside.

Morrighanne Burns: After Manson and Reznor had their bitchfight fisticuff, Manson went downhill. I stopped listening once Twiggy departed as he was my boy totty. I wouldn't class him as goth, more a dark nu-metal, of which there were a few bands at the same time like Rammstein who fit the same category.

I've read his book and I don't think his intention was to be goth, he was more of a metal kid who went for the Alice Cooper style of shock-rock. So no, not goth.

Regen Robinson: I have to disagree in a way, although I never really liked any of Marilyn Manson musically. I think the few artists who achieve a mainstream status defiantly kill the beauty of the scene, but give younger goths some variety that they might not find.

Kind of like a gateway drug into the better music. The Internet has changed this a lot, but almost all commercial U.S. radio stations stick to a certain format...which definitely is not goth.

Batty: I definitely always saw him as dark glam-metal more than anything. I don't think he intended to grab the goth crowd like he did, but when he saw the money, he didn't shun it.

I never did listen to commercial radio, even when I was younger. I was listening to my friends' older sisters and brothers' glam tapes or New Wave stuff. I guess I got into goth entirely differently than a lot of people do, the old-school way of stumbling upon it (via compilations, etc.). Again, agreed, he and Reznor were a gateway drug, but still wouldn't call them goth, and they also opened the gates for a lot of undesirables.

Regen Robinson: I actually did stumble upon it by commercial radio, amazingly! There was this great program in Detroit that played at maybe 3 a.m. one night a week. I have a feeling most young people in my city were not as diligent at searching this out as I was, though.

Darla Teagarden: Manson is a successful commercial pop-rock singer with black nails. If that's a good or bad thing, I guess it depends who you ask. He is not a gothic artist. That's not to say goth can't be commercial ever, it's just, he's not it.

Liisa Ladouceur: I gotta say I find the vitriol for the guy, his art and his fans is as immature and misguided as the "undesirable" mall-goths that offend your sensibilities so. It's like he personally kicked all your puppies or something. If you don't like his radio-friendly rock riffs, fine. If you find him pompous, fine. (Because Andrew Eldritch and Peter Murphy aren't?)

But to hate him because millions of young people related to his catchy songs about standing up for yourself against hypocritical parental, governmental and religious authority and thought the uniform for that was Tripp pants from Hot Topic like as if this is the greatest blight upon gothdom ever?

Holy elitism. If you know who you are, and what goth means to you, what difference does a mass influx of new kids make?

Manson's commercial success didn't kill the "beauty" of anything. It put a skinny white guy who wears corsets, latex and black nail polish -- and some gloriously gothic grand guignol videos -- onto MTV. I'll take that over auto-tuned pop tarts any day. If he's guilty of any crimes, it's not putting out a decent record since 2003.

Marilyn Manson plays with Pretty Reckless Sunday, May 13, at House of Blues.

Location Info

House of Blues

1204 Caroline, Houston, TX

Category: Music

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Is there any truth behind the rumor that Brian Warner was a frequent pen pal with Rozz Williams back in the 80s? I always wondered whether Manson's music video for disposable teens featured the cross imagery as some kind of failed attempt at a Christian Death reference.


Manson is above and beyond Goth could ever dream of being. He is the epitome in other words. It goes downhill from there.


Is Marilyn Manson still going? Goodness. You'd think he'd have thrown in the towel years ago. Yes, I get his relevance in 90s America, but in todays times? He's become more of a clown-like puppet than anything. Most of the teenage mall-gothy kids I know have moved on. I think it's high time he did too.

Gary Packwood
Gary Packwood

Manson's music is an example of advanced music theory concepts thought about in a 'theory' course (not class) at a legitimate conservatory of music where music theory along with sarcasm, irony and Manson are appreciated by many, perhaps most.

Manson is seen there as a brilliant performing artist and lyricist who makes money in a for-profit setting. That's ironic and rather amusing to American students of the performing arts who are expected to feel honored if invited as a performer to drag their instrument to a concert hall where they earn a hundred bucks and an air-kiss.

And now we have cross-over music grabbing a toehold with professionally trained musicians such as The 2 Cellos (Sulic & Hauser) who knocked the socks of the world of popular music by winning a Grammy this year. 

I can't help but wonder if Manson was their inspiration to do something 'weird' and completely outside the box with classical music.

But probably the most fun for Manson fans and me is watching music critics review Manson's work when in fact many of the critics know nothing about music theory or even that Manson was at one time a journalist.

A music journalist.

And for sure, Gothic 'customers' are appreciated just like other fans as he prepares the deposit slips for his bank accounts.

Al Iguana
Al Iguana

To me, Manson is about as goth as Gene Simmons. Or Lady Gaga. No matter how many freakshow-exibits-in-jars he fills his house with, he's just a hair-metaller to me. There is a difference, it's not about all wearing black (it's more than a haircut, more that meets the eye - Fiends?)


correction:correct, he is* far shittier


If you mean in terms of shittiness, then yes you are correct, they are far shittier than even the worst actual goth related item could ever be.


For the most part, Manson has moved on. He really isn't relevant these days. And, that whole "mallgoth" phenomenon is over too. The whole "mallgoth" thing was pretty much a 90's and early 2000s thing. Since Hot Topic became Forever 21 and a lot of the "dark alternative" 90's/early 2000s bands fizzled out the whole "mallgoth" thing has disappeared. Manson hasn't had a hit since 2003, Hot Topic hasn't been spooky since 2005, and I haven't seen a kid sporting baggy Tripp pants since the early 2000s. Looks like they've moved on why can't the Goth scene do so as well? Honestly, the subject of Manson has been beaten TO DEATH. Let it go, PLEASE.


I agree, even Hot Topic has moved on from back then [which may say something about why they're not doing well anymore financially].

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