The Myth of Female Privilege, or, Mark Saunders Is an Idiot

Categories: Random Ephemera

5. Female privilege is the idea that women and children should be the first rescued from any sort of emergency situation. Female privilege is saving yourself before you save others and not being viewed as a monster.

A) This is actually of a symptom of treating women like children, meaning unable to help themselves. B) It's pretty much a moot point once we started having female emergency service members. C) All you have to do is look up the survivor manifest of the Titanic to see how the "women and children first" thing actually played out when used.

6. Female privilege is being able to decide not to have a child.

I must have missed a draft pick or something. Also, as a person who spent three years and $10,000 on fertility treatments I invite you to kiss my hobbit hole. When you're listing "being able to get an abortion" among the superpowers then I really hope that the government has you on a list.

7. Female privilege is not having to support a child financially for 18 years when you didn't want to have it in the first place.

Right... because if a single woman has a child and is receiving child support she never has to spend a dime of her own money on the kid.

8. Female privilege is never being told to "take it like a man" or "man up."

Frankly, I always took "man up" to mean "take care of business", not as a command to ignore my pain, but if it bothers you so much I'll cede you this one.

9. Female privilege is knowing that people would take it as a gravely serious issue if someone raped you. Female privilege is being able to laugh at a "prison rape" joke.

If you think men don't laugh at prison rape jokes then you must see a very different Yahoo News comment section than I do. Regardless, wishing rape on anyone, even criminals, is wrong.

10. Female privilege is being able to divorce your spouse when your marriage is no longer working because you know you will most likely be granted custody of your children.

There is still an unmistakable bias toward awarding women custody of children over men, though since I found this in a list that also bitches about child support I have to wonder more about the quality of the man petitioning custody in this case.

11. Female privilege is being able to call the police in a domestic dispute knowing they will take your side. Female privilege is not having your gender work against where police are involved.

Men's domestic abuse complaints are indeed not taken serious enough. On the other hand, the police response in the Steubenville rape case should be adequate enough to show that the police are not automatically going to believe a woman.

12. Female privilege is being able to be caring or empathetic without people being surprised.

Wait... it bothers you that people are surprised you're not an asshole?

13. Female privilege is not having to take your career seriously because you can depend on marrying someone who makes more money than you do. Female privilege is being able to be a "stay at home mom" and not seem like a loser.

Apparently the answer to the wage gap is to wed the guys taking home 30 percent more than you for the same job. And yes, it would be nice to have "stay at home dad" be a little less stigmatized. Maybe if we let the women make the same amount of money as the men more men could afford to be those.

14. Female privilege is being able to cry your way out of a speeding ticket.

Maybe they're crying because they can't afford the same ticket a man could?

15. Female privilege is being favored by teachers in elementary, middle and high school. Female privilege is graduating high school more often, being accepted to more colleges, and generally being encouraged and supported along the way.

There are some alarming statistics about how boys are faring in schools as opposed to girls, but they are usually misread. Objectively, boys are actually performing better than ever except in a few key areas. The reason for the widening gap is that girls managed to close it and then pulled ahead. By the way, you could close that gap considerably for the boys by focusing on helping low income minority boys get better access to education, but I realize that sounds a lot more like actual work.

16. Female privilege being able to have an opinion without someone tell you you're just "a butthurt fedora-wearing neckbeard who can't get any."

Male privilege is being able to have an opinion and not be told you're a cunt that should be raped.

17. Female privilege is being able to talk about sexism without appearing self-serving.

As opposed to a man writing a MRA talking points menu?

18. Female privilege is arrogantly believing that sexism only applies to women.

A privilege is not something you believe, it's something you have. No matter what your crotch-dangle is if you don't believe that there's sexism on both sides you're an idiot. Likewise, if you believe even half the list Saunders has written you're also an idiot.



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43 comments
jcayles
jcayles

It's easy to pick and choose the key points you want to argue.  But what about the legitimate ones that you cannot argue?

itistolul
itistolul

I know this is old, but I think it's worth mentioning that the person who wrote the original "female privilege" article is mostly talking about privileges granted to *white* women. You don't have to look very far to see a black mother being torn from her kids because she's "ill-suited." You don't have to wrack your brains for an example of a raped black woman who was ignored and mocked on the basis that she was "asking for it." And holy shit, do we need to point out that cops in the US don't give a shit if a black woman cries? 

jabababa
jabababa

Fallacies 101 - 

Argumentum ad hominem - Personal attack i.e "because he's an idiot"; diverts attention from the arguments to the person thereby affecting the legitimacy of your own arguments.

laola678
laola678

Won't comment on all points, because some of them are at least at first glance legit, but:

7) The point is that the woman can choose to have an abortition, while the father can't. It's as simple as that.
11) So, we have one case of the police actually doing what they should, and investigate before beliving one side, against many cases of anti-man bias. I don't see your point here.
13)Again, the wage gap. There are many articles about why this is actually bullshit on MHRM sites, so i won't comment on this.
14)S.a. Also: Think about the wage gap: The one and only goal of both Male and Female entrepreneurs is making money. And not simply one more dollar than you spend, but as much money as possible. So, if you can get away with paying less for the same work, why would you still hire guys? Right, you wouldn't.
15)The question that needs to be asked is why the pulled ahead.... But i can't really argue for or against the american school system, because i am not from there.
16)And Female privilege is getting a bunch of guys to beat up whoever said this.

18)I think he means that this is the consent among society. Also, this is just semantic, from my own experience this is a belive many,(ASSPOWALT, if i may use something from the MGTOW Glossary) have, which is a problem if true equality is the goal of feminism and the MHRM, because both woman and man are both lacking back in certain areas of life.

Jerome
Jerome

As a Black man, I know the feeling when a White man clearly feels safer on the other side of the street.


His FEAR of my presence is much greater cause for alarm than MY hurt feelings.

His PRIVILEGE is more important than MY FEELINGS.

RawrIhavePi
RawrIhavePi

Here's the thing about the whole 'women get primary custody' in divorce cases: it's because of benevolent (and not so benevolent) sexism. It's the idea that women are naturally the better caregivers just by being women (more empathetic, more nurturing, etc [the benevolent type]), but also because in the majority of marriages - they are the primary caregiver (the ones expected to stay home to parent and take time off work when the kids are sick, etc.).

Kiribati
Kiribati

Some of these, have basis in reality. And some don't. I think men do have a lot of issues they should address (like you mentioned, get boys in lower income areas better education).


Pay Equity doesn't seem to be understood anymore. Because now it is illegal in the Western World to pay two people doing the same job a different rate because of their gender. The problem now lies in the fact that traditionally male jobs are valued more than traditionally female jobs. So it's harder to find, and label, and get people to agree with you. It's the problem with a lot of discrimination nowadays, people hide it behind a million other things because you can't just blatantly do it, which leads to people who might not understand it's origins who aren't discriminatory but end up helping that system.


And while the glass ceiling exists for women, there's another issue for men, I think I've heard it called the glass cellar? Or something like that? That the jobs that are more likely to get you injured/killed/etc tend to be male dominated jobs.

Number ten. From the statistics I've heard, yes it is true overall. However when they looked at cases where the husband pursued full custody? They were more likely to get it.


Basically, life is complicated. And you have to be super careful when doing these types of lists because it can be twisted so easily, and misunderstood and then your issues don't get addressed (like the legitimate ones he did bring up, because I was staring at the ridiculous ones going "I don't feel like I could have a sane conversation with you")

Spasmolytic
Spasmolytic

Female privilege is being able to say anything about a man without consequence while a man must walk on egg shells before speaking about women.

jplmedley
jplmedley

Article is good - although I agree that just picking the 10 most absurd of Saunders list would be tighter.   Also - the Titanic survivors manifest does show that women out-survived men by a large margin.   I am sympathetic to your view - just mentioning that in that case, being male meant higher odds of dying.  It is a rare case, outside of combat, of women being at less risk than men.  

lonianderson1979
lonianderson1979 topcommenter

@JefWithOneF I wish you would have just cherry picked some of the crazy and not all of them. A few of them at least deserve some consideration. Especially the ones that really refer to law.

Susugns
Susugns

@JefWithOneF Spot on. Nice replies, for the most part. You left out a number of retorts that I would have written to this knuckle dragger, Mark Saunders, but I really appreciated your response, nonetheless. I especially liked #15 and thank christ you wrote that because as a female scientist I was about to shit a brick with that one. However, you would cede 8? Men are occasionally told to "man up", true, but how often throughout any given day do women hear weak people or cowards called "sissy" or "pussy"? How often do women hear, "You ________ like a girl" or "Stop being such a girl about it"?  If hearing "take it like a man" hurts a man's delicate sensibilities then perhaps he should take a second to consider some of the thoughtless yet degrading remarks he makes.

kevin848
kevin848

I thought the original article was good, but I figured I'd give your rebuttal a chance, but it was way off-base right out the gate.

"
Yes, it sucks when a woman on the street clearly feels safer on the other side of the street than you. However, if you think for a second that her fear is somehow a privilege..."

IRRELEVANT! No one is saying that it's a privilege to be afraid. He's not saying that women shouldn't feel the fear, just that it is a privilege to not have people instinctively run away from you. Suggesting that anyone thinks her fear is a privilege is either a deliberate distortion or a sign of complete stupidity.

The original article did not say that women have it better than men or that there are no male privileges, just that those were some privileges of being female.

Katelynn
Katelynn

I read the original and all I could think was: please, tell me how to get to this magical land where all women that report a sexual assault get taken seriously and they’re never told that they should feel lucky because they’d never get laid otherwise or that they were asking for it or that they shouldn’t have been walking alone at night or that they shouldn’t have invited their male friend into their apartment or that they shouldn’t have been drinking or that they shouldn’t have worn such revealing clothing.

Noelle A. Perry
Noelle A. Perry

a couple of this guy's points might be somewhat valid, but most of them are ridiculous.** FTFY.

Richard Waterman
Richard Waterman

Mark Saunders envies woman because he wants to be one clearly. I must say I have been pulled over with my wife driving and told her to flirt a little. We did get out of the ticket. We made her privilege ours lol.(winning)

Josh Webster
Josh Webster

Of course there are benefits to being a woman. There are benefits to being a man, too. No matter who you are, there are probably specific things in which you hold an advantage over others. Some of this guy's points are valid, and some of them are ridiculous.

Becci Himes
Becci Himes

I hope Mark Saunders enjoyed his little pity party. Sounds like someone who's behind on his child support payments. ;-)

downtownbrown
downtownbrown

Female privilege is reflected in the fact that for every woman who dies in the course of her job OVER TEN MEN DO.  Female privilege means never having to take responsibility for your actions while drunk as its always the guys fault when you regret the sex the next day.  Female privilege is using tears to get out of a traffic ticket.  Should I go on?

56belair
56belair

It's what the article states about the survivors of the Titanic

fishingblues
fishingblues topcommenter

Regardless of the content, the response (this article) was nothing more than emotional rationalization.  

johnnybench
johnnybench

 The MRA "movement" can't be real.  It has to be some sort of satirical meme.  Nobody can actually lack the self-awareness necessary to write "[f]emale privilege is being able to walk down the street at night without people crossing the street because they're automatically afraid of you."  It has to be an elaborate hoax.  Surely these people don't exist in the real world.  

squirrelingitaway
squirrelingitaway

Posting here, since you apparently cannot handle  criticism tonight:


You disappoint me today, Jef. For all that chad irritated you, this _was_ a shit piece. It's a shit piece responding to a shit piece, but it's not worthy of the guy who wrote the purity article. I'm glad you got paid for it, but I hope you revisit the subject at a later date with your actual talent brought to bear on it. 

As it is, you're probably going to get a mention on Jezebel. Let that sink in a bit.


This was then edited to add the following - though you blocked me while I was writing it:  

Actually, let me retract that. On a re-read, I realize that the bad taste in my mouth came from the first half of the article - where most of the egregious bullshit on the original list was located. I sincerely apologize for calling your piece shit, Jef. Of every point you raise, I only disagree that The Doctor or any iteration of Sherlock qualify as a counter to the bumbling-dad trope. 

In penance, I offer the following rhetorical chicanery: The bumbling-male trope actually has its own foreign exemplar to match the "what about the middle east" derailment. For all that Everybody Loves Raymod is annoying, he's a paragon of masculine competence compared to a LOT of characters in Korean film. Horror films especially abound with petty, insecure, and incompetent men. It's worth spending a otherwise wasted free hour or two researching for the fun of springing it in future arguments. Also, watch "A Tale of Two Sisters". No bumbling-male there, just an amazing horror film that was poorly served by its american remake.

Hanabi-chan
Hanabi-chan topcommenter

Jeff, allow me to give you  a high-five on your excellent retorts!

itistolul
itistolul

@kevin848 That's less of a privilege and more of women being infantilized and perceived as inherently helpless. This is not a privilege. 

albertgator
albertgator

@kevin848 instead of thinking of it as "the privilege to not have people instinctively run away from you" how about "the privilege of not belonging to a gender which has waged war on its opposite number for all of recorded history, thus instilling a legitimate and well-founded fear of unfamiliar members of the powerful class of Men"? 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@downtownbrown  Oh please do... I love watching people that can't read type. It's like a circus trick. 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@Hanabi-chan  High five accepted. Prepare to receive addition five on the down low.

downtownbrown
downtownbrown

@JefWithOneF Sure thing beta, Female privilege is being able to complain about the wage gap when men actiually work harder, longer, use less sick time, and don't engage in malicious gossip around the work place.  Female privilege is being able to kill an unborn child and call it a "choice".  Female privilege is being able to shun dirty , icky jobs and march straight into the boardroom and demand  "equality".  Yes we need masculism, and less limp wristed, victim enabling betas like yourself.

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@jehn.henderson @downtownbrown @JefWithOneF  For the record, I mostly write about video games and Doctor Who and my wife is training to be a NICU nurse. I'm pretty sure she has the most dangerous and icky job in the relationship

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@downtownbrown @JefWithOneF  Masculism embodied in the words of a man clearly doing fuck all on a Monday morning at a computer with internet access. Somehow I doubt you're posting this from an oil rig or something. 

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