Mrs. Hall, You Can Actually See a Girl Naked Then Treat Her Like a Human Being

Categories: Parenting
mrshall4.jpg
Jordan Chan
Me on stage with a girl whose nipple I've seen and did not feel the compulsion to sexually bother
I've got another very close friend. Michelle will do. Thanks to a burlesque performance she did at Numbers and just the easy way us goths are about our bodies, I reckon that there is less than seven square inches of her I haven't seen exposed. I've also seen her make out with her wife, which was very physically exciting. That's not what I'm thinking about when our families meet for dinner. I'm thinking how wonderful it is to have someone that supporting, understanding, and intelligent in my life.

I used to be in a band, sharing singing duties with a girl who I once convinced to show me a picture of her nipple piercing. On tour, I slept in the same bed as her, a girl with whom I had a very passionate artistic relationship often involving love songs and with whom I was often very drunk. Nothing ever even slightly happened between us. Why would it? She wasn't my girlfriend or wife and I wasn't in love with her. She was just my awesome lyric and singing partner.

Also, she was the only one in the band that didn't snore.

I even have friends that have posed nude for fetish websites, appeared topless in horror movies, and in two cases have filmed hardcore pornographic videos. At any given time on Facebook I probably have at least one girl I have seen naked active in my newsfeed.

And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to them that I've seen it, and it doesn't matter to me. It's perfectly possible to look at someone in a seductive pose with fun bits out, feel physical attraction to them, and still have a normal friendly relationship to that person. A person is supposed to handle sexual feelings with wisdom, restraint, and a sense of propriety for the same reason you're not supposed to eat an entire bag of Halloween candy in one sitting.

As Penn Jillette said, "I rape all I want. The amount I want is zero."

See also: So You've Accidentally Shown Your Four-Year-Old Naked, Bloody Vampires

It's not the job of those girls to censor their lives or activities in order to shield me from the prospect of a boner I can't use on them. Just because a man gets hard does not mean that the source of that erection owes him anything or is in some way attacking his morality. Any arousal that results from a picture they post of themselves is my problem to deal with because it's my body, just as Tom Hiddelston and Chris Hemsworth are not responsible for cleaning soggy theater seats. Only scary people equate desire with an attack.

That's the crux, Mrs. Hall. My parents didn't hide the world of sex from me. Instead, they taught me to respect other people's boundaries and my own body, to actually deal with feelings rather than avoid them and hope they go away. It seems to me the lesson you're teaching your own boys is that a woman that in any way causes a man to feel sexual, opens herself to all kinds of things.

And that sort of thinking is very dangerous. It absolves guilt in the minds of a person. Nothing erodes a person's morality faster than assuring them it's not their fault. Frankly, if your sons can't be trusted to view pictures of their friends on Facebook in their pajamas, I'm not sure I'd want them around my daughter. Will they lose their "daily uphill battle to keep their minds pure" if she bends over to pick up something she drops?

Speaking of my daughter, I named her after a girl I also saw both topless and bottomless. When I visit her grave I'm not thinking about the night she flashed me as a birthday present. I'm thinking about how much I miss hearing her laugh and if she would approve of the man I became.

In one sense, you are right. I can never un-see what I saw, meaning I haven't forgotten the details of various breasts and vulvas. It's just that mama raised me to value the woman they were attached to. Block your sons' friends if you must, but have a care that they know that such things do not release them of the responsibility of their own dicks. Morality has nothing to do with the way others make us feel. It's defined by our actions resulting from those feelings.

Jef has a new story, a tale of headless strippers and The Rolling Stones, available now in Broken Mirrors, Fractured Minds. You can also connect with him on Facebook.

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37 comments
Noelle A. Perry
Noelle A. Perry

accidental misogyny aside, i just think it's kind of creepy that the entire hall family sits around the dinner table and looks at pictures of teenage girls.

Jeff Hill
Jeff Hill

Finally, a voice of reason. Nice rebuttal, Jef with 1 f. Her blog reads like a proper society lady of 1955.

Ray Hadfield
Ray Hadfield

This may come as a shock, but just because you see someone naked doesn't mean they immediately become a sexual object."....Amazing,and all this time women thought showing more skin and undressing for a man was sexy........

Wayward Shepherd
Wayward Shepherd

Mrs. Hall is blaming the women for HER boys' impure thoughts? She should teach them to respect women as equals, not objects.

sas69318
sas69318

I'm really glad this exists. I have three male roommates, one of which is my boyfriend. All of which see me in different amounts of clothing, including my towel, daily. How shocking, they can all still look me in the eye and speak to me like a human being. 

girligoddess
girligoddess

I think both authors have some good points but I'm leaning Mrs. Hall's way. I used to have some teen boys on my fb page (sons of relatives not doing a very good job of parenting) The creepy, disgusting posts I saw from themselves and their friends, girls included made me so sad and worried for my own girls. Let's just say I know these boys contributed to "rape culture" in a BIG way. But it's wasn't just them, it was dozens of their friends, and it just was so matter of fact, like this is what teens all think like. Very disturbing. And trust me there were plenty of girls lining up for their abuse, posting themselves in worse than what Hall was talking about, and the pictures they boys would post of themselves doing insulting things to women. I can't believe I've had friends posts removed from fb where they are breastfeeding (and no actual SKIN is showing) but when I reported some of these pics to fb I got a message that they didn't violate fb standards. I guess their standards are pornographic.

Pooop
Pooop

Thanks for writing this, Jef with One F. Really glad HP has you.

April Rangel
April Rangel

She's talking about teenage boys and girls, not adults, & teenage boys see all girls as sexual objects. Mrs. Hall is correct in that these teenage girls don't have to make themselves more sexual to her boys. I sure as hell don't want my daughter posting pics like that when she is UNDERAGE.

Kathy Stabe
Kathy Stabe

That's exactly what this woman said. Actually what she said was even more extreme - once you see a girl in her pajamas without a bra on all she is is a sexual object. She doesn't even have to be naked.

timhoustontx
timhoustontx

yes, jeF, that guys rant was crazy.

but don't try to compare how YOU see women with how hetero teenage boys do.

timhoustontx
timhoustontx

Yes, Jef, that guy's rant was crazy.  But don't try to compare how YOU see women with how hetero teenage boys see them.

Sarah Nicole Grimmer
Sarah Nicole Grimmer

Hi Kathy - If you're talking about the blog, yes I did. And the Houston Press can agree or disagree with any of the points the author made (as can I, and I do, agree and disagree with different points she's made). My point here point was that the Houston Press has written a status (or 'headline' if you will) claiming this woman said something she did not. And if you're asking about Jef with one F's response - yes, I read that too.

Kathy Stabe
Kathy Stabe

Bull. Did you even read the article, Sarah?

_abrahan
_abrahan

love the mention of the L shaped sheets!

Sarah Nicole Grimmer
Sarah Nicole Grimmer

Houston Press - This has been all over the place - the woman's blog suggests that once you see a girl naked you can't un-see it (fairly accurate). The suggestion that a girl wouldn't want to be seen only as a sexual object is a separate statement. The way you've lumped the two ideas together here (and left out key context) is unfair to the author.

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@girligoddess To me it's still putting the focus on "Don't do anything that might rile up the creeps" instead of "don't be a creep."

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@Pooop Do you have any idea how weird it was to say, "Man, Pooop really made me feel good about what I do?"

theevilspoonoverlord
theevilspoonoverlord

@April Rangel There is a flaw in your logic because I've known many teenage boys and many teenage girls. The boys saw the girls as humans, equal in all ways to themselves, and the girls saw it the same way. Perhaps this is just the younger generation, but boys aren't inherently evil just by hitting puberty. It takes bad personality and bad parenting for them to become that way.

drusilla.grey
drusilla.grey

I guarantee the girls are not posting pics for the Hall boys specifically.

Teens need to be taught how to act like faults an to treat others with respect and dignity. Mrs. Hall is not teaching her sons that al all. She is teaching them to be judge others and shame them. She is also teaching them that women and girls are not real people but merely objects. And she is teaching her daughter that she should be ashamed of her body once she's gone through puberty. This is patenting by over control, guilt and shame. It is not ok and it perpetuates tape culture and victim blaming.

theevilspoonoverlord
theevilspoonoverlord

Heaven forbid her precious sons go to the pool, lest they be tempted by all the women in swimwear. I wonder how she found a beach with no female beach goers so as not to let her sons be tempted?

drusilla.grey
drusilla.grey

And you know not wearing a bra is totally evil. Because only slutty filthy girls have nipples.

theevilspoonoverlord
theevilspoonoverlord

@timhoustontx My hetero teenage boy friends saw me naked or without a shirt in high school, they still talked to me like I was a person, and not a person they had sexual feelings toward.  What is with the belief that teenage boys are monsters without morals that roam the streets looking for women to molest?

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@Christa Cassata Wasn't going to weigh in, but just couldn't get that crap about NEVER UNSEE THE BOOOOOOOOOBS out of my head. Ironic, isn't it? ;)

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@_abrahan Target doesn't sell them. What the hell am I supposed to do when Zooey Deschanel comes over?

Pooop
Pooop

@Sarah Nicole Grimmer You're reading this way too literally at the surface level. Read the meaning underneath that. He's talking about what she means when she writes "you can't unsee a girl naked." He's talking about where Mrs. Hall was coming from when she wrote that post.

girligoddess
girligoddess

@JefWithOneF @girligoddess No, I see what you're saying, and agree with you, and think you are probably awesome and someone I would want my girls to hang with if they were 19 years older,  but if i had teen sons I would be definitely interested in what kind of media messages they were digesting and what the culture around them was showing them, Mrs. Hall was a little over the top. I would definitely not want my sons hanging around and fbing with "the creeps" and the girls who worship 'the creeps" though, and though my girls are just 9 and 4 now, when they start using social media I will keep an eye out for what kind of culture they are involved in and if they are posting sexy selfies you bet I will have a talk with them about making sure they know what they are doing and why but without the shame or judgement. 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@theevilspoonoverlord Right on. This whole "teenage boys transform into horn-monsters" crap has got to cease. They certainly won't act any better if you pretend they can't. They're people, not freakin' werewolves. 

tuibguy1
tuibguy1

@girligoddess @JefWithOneF I would say, as a parent, that teaching boys how to value women is more important than anything right now.  The diversion of rape culture has to be focused on the boys and them learning how to respect.

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