10 Things I Plan to Tell My Daughter About Sex That Aren't That Purity Movement Crap

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Against my better judgment I've been doing a lot of reading on the purity movement. If you've never been exposed to it, then I'll explain. The idea is basically that you, as a father, are supposed to serve as the sole male influence in your daughter's life until she gets married. You "guard her heart (and vagina)" because only you can be trusted with it. Certainly she can't. If God wanted women to be in charge of their genitals or feelings he wouldn't have let them be born in Texas.

You go to these weird balls where you dance with your daughter like it's a prom and you give her a ring very like a wedding ring. The term "emotional incest" gets thrown around a lot by detractors, and is the second most horrifying phrase I've learned this year after "glue fic." Then you hand off your little girl to your approved suitor who then acts exactly like you did except plus sex.

Better writers than I, like Libby Anne, have tackled the subject in depth, and you should spend an afternoon reading her work. She went through it as a daughter of movement, though. I'm a dad, and I am perfectly aware that the sexual health of this child is going to be part of my job. I'm not looking forward to it, to tell the truth, but if the alternative is fetishizing chastity while giving Oedipus a handie then by God I'm going in full guns blazing.

Here are the ten things I know I need to tell a modern girl about sex once she matures enough to roll her eyes throughout the conversation.

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How My Daughter Made Me a Better RPG Gamer

10. That sex is beautiful and fun as hell, but so is driving a car and a bunch of other things that come with responsibilities. You need to ask yourself if you can handle those. I knew I couldn't be trusted with a car at 16, so I didn't ask for one. Same with sex. I waited until I knew I was with someone that wouldn't use me wrong and knew what they were doing. You shouldn't be afraid of it, but you should respect its possible consequences, such a pregnancy, disease, and just the general mess that sometimes come from sleeping with someone you shouldn't have.

9. That someone that feels the need to lie, trick, or force you into sex is never going to be the slightest bit interested in your enjoyment of it. You might as well be a gym sock as far as they're concerned. Don't be a trophy.

8. That you should never do anything that will make you hate yourself to gain another person's approval. You are not defined by the approval of others, and anyone who says you are wants to control you. You are your own person with your own unique value to yourself.

7. Your body belongs to you. Anyone that doesn't respect that is an enemy. Run if you can, fight if you can't, and never let someone convince you asked for or deserved it if all else fails. If a person makes you feel that they can fire you or fail you in a class or something if you don't return their affections then they are just a rapist that doesn't like to go out. Leave and tell someone immediately, because if it wasn't you it will be someone else.


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325 comments
julie767
julie767

What the heck does this comment mean??

"If God wanted women to be in charge of their genitals or feelings he wouldn't have let them be born in Texas."

You sure are not starting out on my good side.

letmein
letmein

Wow, excellent.  You must be one hell of a father.


anonymous
anonymous

I am a woman who had a father who encouraged her to wait until marriage to have sex.  He actually didn't approach it from a religious perspective, just a moral one.  I knew if I did have sex before marriage, he wouldn't love me less or judge me, it's just that he told me what he felt was right.  Initially, I didn't listen to him and had sex once as a teenager, which I regret deeply.  After that experience I became Christian and my husband an I waited until we were married to have sex.  And I'm so glad we did!  We dated for 1.5 years before getting engaged, were engaged for 1 year, and have since been happily married for nearly 5 years.  It was a long time to wait, but we didn't rush our relationship and we both are very intelligent individuals (both very professionally accomplished with our masters).  We don't have children yet, but plan to encourage both our sons and daughters to wait until marriage.  We will be honest about our own pasts and our own regrets.  They will know why we believe what we believe but they will also know that if they choose a different path than we did, that they can be honest with us as their health and well-being will always matter more than them agreeing with us.

JJHC
JJHC

This article is worth laminating,  tattooing on your forehead, whatever it takes to remember the content and spirit of the advice when it comes time to have "the talk(s)" with our SONS and daughters.  Bravo.

smarthotfun
smarthotfun

"There is nothing that can't be improved by approaching it honestly, openly, and with a willingness to learn."  My favorite quote of the whole piece.

Way to be an adult, move past your fear and discomfort, and be a great dad to your daughter.  Kudos to you and all the parents who aren't getting roped in by fear and ignorance when choosing how to approach teaching sexual values.

levi.haynes
levi.haynes

"[...]but if the alternative is fetishizing chastity while giving Oedipus a handie then by God I'm going in full guns blazing."

Brilliant. Totally sums up much of my sentiment on parenting. I KNOW that any of the discussions my daughter and I have are going to be potentially awkward. But I have two choices. I can either man up and deal with it in a way that will make her more comfortable talking to me, or I can close my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears and pretend it's not happening. The latter option will ensure that I will have no idea what is going on in my girl's head and in her world, leave me out in the dark, and make damned sure that I am no longer a relevant influence in her life.


This is a blog entry I'm saving and tucking away for a couple years from now when the conversations get REALLY awkward, and I could use some talking points to address. Many thanks for that.

TXKathy
TXKathy

My guess is @sillydaddy had a bad experience in a relationship and has now decided to make absurd generalizations and assumptions. He's young (LMAO at his remark about dating someone "old, say 30 years old"), has not had much experience with relationships, and, apparently, has not had *any* adult relationships. He knows nothing about women OR men. I honestly feel sorry for him. Hopefully someday he will understand how completely wrong he is, both about the meaning of Jef's article and his message for his daughter, and about respect and adult relationships. Maybe when he starts acting like a man instead of an ill-mannered boy. He'll never experience the awesomeness that is real love and trust in a healthy, respectful romantic relationship if he doesn't outgrow his ridiculous attitude.

ijacilynne
ijacilynne

thanks for posting this. I wish my dad thought the same way. He seems to think that If I have sex before I'm married I'm "tarnished". I told him I wasn't a piece of furniture and practically got kicked out of the house for being "a filthy young woman". Your article gives me faith in the other fathers of the world.

sillydaddy
sillydaddy

He's talking about problems that generally don't exist for 90% of people. Most boys and girls have sex before they get the right to vote and overwhelming majority will have sex before they hit legal age to drink alcohol.

He's speaking of issues of his dinosaur generations, I think it was a non-issue for majority even in 60s and 70s because they had the hippie movement at the time. 

Does he know how it goes today? It's more degrading to be a virgin and stay chaste than to have sex with several people at the same time. This applies for both men and women, especially for men. His generation might have seen it a non-issue for a woman to remain virgin, but that's not the case today.

Only people who are having issues with their wish for sex while feeling that they need to remain virgins are girls and boys who are taught to avoid sex until marriage or very late in relationships, and they are instructed to suppress their demands for sex. Their main problem is that most people won't put up with that and will bang someone on the side if they can. Another main problem is that they'll see their years passing by and their strategy failing, which will make them depressed. This is especially the case for women who try to find someone for LTR. She won't be at any advantage for staying virgin today because most "chaste" guys will b

He teaches his daughter to do what she's comfortable with, but he effectively instructs her to seek for a conservative eunuch. Those eunuchs will either be fake and will be dating other women on the side, or they'll be the prudes who will have an issue with his daughter not being a virgin. You know why? Because they are taught that way at their home and most of them are virgins themselves.

allredham
allredham

@julie767 Gosh Julie look at the politics in Texas. How can you miss the Conservative slant?........

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@julie767 It means that Texas has been an overly-religious, misogynistic shit-hole lately when it comes to sex education, access to contraception and abortion, and well pretty much anything to do with women. 

allredham
allredham

@letmein  I am and I am not from Texas nor do I live there but even from the back woods of North Carolina I recognize the difference in Conservative , Liberal and B.S......The majority coming out of the Good State of Texas is....What Texas is known for and that is B.S.!

sillydaddy
sillydaddy

And please don't bother to tell me, either you, Jef or anyone else, about me being stupid, sick, pissed off I am etc.... you said it many times already. You forgot to answer on my claims and direct question asked.

Yet you never either accepted or refused my comments on common issues for men in dating and life. And you didn't answer a common scenario with roles reversed, where a woman would be dating a man who would be waiting to have sex for months or years, or until marriage. Believe it or not, the number of guys and girls who do that is about the same and it's very small. All of them are doing that primarily because of their prudish upbringing at home, not because of some chastity movement. I can tell you that there is a bigger stigma about being a virgin for both men and women than it is for being a non virgin. And this is especially the case for men. That is unless they are prudes.


You think it's a smart thing to teach boys to be someone's eunuch and follow through their hoops and you consider that dating. That's unhealthy. It may be great for your daughters an their self esteem but it ruins self esteem to lots of guys because they do get ditched much more often than they would if they were direct and made it clear that they won't bother dating them if no sex occurs. 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@TXKathy I don't know that cat's story, but I do know that treating other people's lives like a big Rorschach test tells us more about them than about us. I never saw any girls being bullied either for having sex or for not having sex or whatever he was one about. I'v never seen so much piss-off before. Hope he works through it. 

julie767
julie767

@sillydaddy The more I read from you the more absurd you sound.  I think you are trying to drive a wedge between people based upon their age.  The divisions in this country are bad enough, don't cha think?

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@sillydaddy Dude, how old do you think I am? I'm 32. I don't know what it is you think you know, but someone has led you astray. Badly.

djrazorgirl
djrazorgirl

@sillydaddy How do you not see that what you're preaching is the problem?  How can you say you have any real respect for yourself or others?  And you only assume that he's saying to wait till marriage.  He never actually said that.  He's just advising not to end up with a one night stand.  Since your a man you'll never understand how painful a first time can be for some women.  And it would only be worse with a partner that wouldn't take the time of day to try and make the experience as easy as possible.
It's also disgusting the way you feel that others have a right to make you feel degraded about wanting to wait for a partner that's right for you.  And worse, that you are inflicting that same sentiment on others.  Do you not see the insanity of it?

Waiting till marriage is a little archaic these days.  However, sleeping with someone just to do it is idiotic as well. That's how you spread STDs, HIV, AIDS, and end up with tragic abortions or young single mothers, or more children in the system to be abused and go unwanted.  And don't give me bullshit about wearing a condom stopping those things from happening, because they are only 95% effective, and most people forget to use a lubricant and spermicide. Also, most never even learn how to use one properly. 

You're not offering forward thinking, you're using impractical logic.  The point is to make the world less screwed up not more screwed up.  And if you are so hormonally unbalanced that you can't control yourself it's time to see a doctor.

embr
embr

@sillydaddy  As far as relevance goes, I felt this article was incredibly apropos for today's young women, particularly those women who were raised in the coddling safety of Suburbia under the influence of guilt-based theologies and fearful parenting. 

That said, I don't think the author is attempting to re-write all the rules--he's seen enough to know that some are worth keeping. In my experience, casual promiscuity as a primary focus in life is degrading to both women and men. Sex in a healthy, responsible, and mutually-constructive relationship is the opposite. But many parents (like mine) wouldn't even approach that conclusion without setting up some very confusing mental blocks in attempt to make abstinence the goal, not healthy understanding of and participation in sexuality.

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF @julie767 Do you talk to your daughter with that same mouth?  Hopefully she grows up to be a better person than you.

sillydaddy
sillydaddy

Oh and they are the ones who end up being 32 y/o virgins, Jef. They, not me. They don't date and they don't have girlfriends. Not me.

They end up being messed up, not me. You want to deny that but society will tell you otherwise. Look around people of your age and see who those guys are and how they got there. They are ashamed of themselves because they were taught wrong and had their lives ruined. Many others will have women pulling them by their nose and manipulating them on any other issue, making their life a living hell. You refuse to realize that those are real life issues for as many men as it goes for women.

Sex isn't evil, and it isn't something men want and women give. Both enjoy sex and vagina isn't a holy grail either, it won't fall apart if people engage in sexual activity. Articulating that you want sex and that you won't put up with someone's eternal hangups doesn't make you either rapist or an idiot, regardless of what you think.

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@sillydaddy You really should stop making assumptions about other people's lives

ansbertog
ansbertog

@JefWithOneF @sillydaddy Obviously someone or many people have lead him astray. I think in "OUR school days" the was much more pressure to NOT be a virgin and that came mostly from the the "jocks" and "popular kid" cliques. I have seen a whole new movement where younger people are taking to NOT sharing nude pics, Taking ownership of their virginity. Now days people are not sub-coming to sexual pressures as easily. More and more people are learning their self worth and noting that sex is NOT an identifier.

sillydaddy
sillydaddy

@djrazorgirl @sillydaddy 

I know he didn't say wait until marriage. He was very clear that he isn't one of those freaks. Those freak children count less than 5% of population, and mainly because of "Duggar approach" to family size of an average conservative. Number of families is far less than 5%.

I'm perfectly balanced with my hormones. I have other hobbies aside from enjoying sex. I have my friends. I have my studies. So many people don't want to accept the reality that prom night is the time when lots of young men and women will have sex with each other willingly, lots of people have ONS but they just don't call it that way. You might have not done it, but I know lots of people who did, including myself. Sex is a great thing and it shouldn't be taboo. People should be informed about diseases, pregnancies, legal options, prevention of potential trouble. I agree on all that. Some people think they do agree as well, but their behavior says that they don't. They apply it selectively.


All I'm saying is that nobody should allow the other person to coerce them on anything. This doesn't mean just having sex, but not having sex as well. There is a reasonable time frame and anyone who wants to date should understand that sex is not evil and that Bible is just a pile of outdated crap. Having an issue to have sex more than a few weeks max is a serious mental problem related to their upbringing. It could be understood for virgins for a while, but I guess that applies for female virgins only.

It also depends on age. If I was older, or dating someone who is old, say 30 years old, I wouldn't put up with longer than a week of sex denial. She better tell me that she's on period as an excuse, or I'm out of there.

cody.obryant
cody.obryant

@julie767 "To sit there and put words into existence that did not happen is insane.  And to base an opinion on something that did not happen is immature at best." 
Did you watch Wendy's filibuster? The GOP literally bullied her off the stage by changing the rules half way through the game, and then they tried to commit fraud by saying a vote occurred before midnight and actually changing the time stamp on the vote. They only corrected their "mistake" after they got caught. If Perry could shut down every abortion clinic in Texas he would. And he would tell you that too. This is the man who spat in the face of democracy when he said "they louder they yell in protest, the more we know we're doing something right."

cody.obryant
cody.obryant

@julie767 So just because they live in Houston, where there is still access makes it okay? What about the people who don't live in Houston, or near any of the 5 abortion clinics that were allowed to remain open in the passing of SB5? 
If they lived in El Paso then would he be allowed to be angry?
Just because one person has, does not mean all do. Trickle down doesn't work. Especially when it comes to abortions. 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@julie767 @JefWithOneF Just returning it to the low level it began at, love. Thanks for the page views. It helps me write more of these. 

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF Since you've descended into nonsensical meaningless conversation, this is a good time as any to end our debate.  

I wish you the best with your sweet girl, and hope when the time comes you can answer her tough questions better than you've answered mine.  Good luck Jef.

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

No more than anything else you've said so far

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF If Wendy Davis could have made abortions legal up to 8 months of pregnancy she would have....

See how silly that sounds?

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF If they could shut what down?  Come on, if you are serious about your journalism, you cannot base facts on what you think 'could have' happened.  To sit there and put words into existence that did not happen is insane.  And to base an opinion on something that did not happen is immature at best.  Reality is important.  Especially when you are trying to pass on something as difficult as sexual education to your most precious impressionable young daughter.

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

If they could have shut it down they would have.

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF I assume you are speaking of HB2.  But since you live in Houston she will have all the access to free birth control and abortions as well as access to all sexual health services she could ever need.  Granted she wont be able to abort a 5 month pregnancy unless her health is affected or the baby had a condition not compatible for life.  So what kind of crap are you stuck with?

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

Yes, love. I live here in Houston, and I love our blue city in the red state, but we're still stuck with the crap from the capital.

julie767
julie767

@JefWithOneF Do you live in Houston?  Because that city is certainly not like the Texas you describe above.  With an openly lesbian mayor, and plenty of opportunity and access to abortion and contraception, she will have just the kind of sexual freedom you seek.  It is a very liberal city and atmosphere where she can bloom and grow without the moral constraints of religion.  She can be everything or anything she dreams to be.  The Montrose is quite the playground for all the artsy types, and open minded free thinking abounds.  So fly, and be free.  She will be grown up in no time.

tink.seagraves
tink.seagraves

@sillydaddy You realize that Jef wrote this article about talking to girls about this because he has a daughter! At no point in his article was the advice he gave solely applicable to girls. By all means sir, if you have a son, give him this EXACT same advice. Jef states several times that no matter what choices his daughter makes he will still love and guide her. From the tone of your comment it seems you are perpetuating the shame of being a virgin onto your son. As a matter of fact being a virgin or not being a virgin really had little to do with his advice at all. Save for him acknowledging that virginity is also a valid choice. The only thing you had right is that sex is not evil. If sex is what you use as a qualifier for relationships I can understand your bitter anger and disappointment. You call them hang-ups if someone isn't ready for sex and your right that doesn't make you a rapist, but conditioning a relationship based on "putting out" does make you shallow.

AverageGirl
AverageGirl

@sillydaddy @djrazorgirl 

What SillyDaddy is saying is, we just shouldn't pressure someone into having sex or NOT having sex.  Unless they haven't had sex for, like, a week into a relationship, in which case they obviously have a serious mental defect. Totally reasonable argument. /sarcasmoff

StRoseMDF2013
StRoseMDF2013

@sillydaddy @jssangel If you make an approach to date someone, it doesn't necessarily mean you want to sleep with them. Dating is a way two people can get to know each other and see if they want to go further than just being acquaintances or friends. Dating was, and remains, a way for people to find a prospective husband or wife, not to see how many notches you can put on your bedpost.  I honestly don't see what's wrong with dating and not having sex. Since when did someone have to jump into bed with someone else after a few days or a week? Why rush things? Everyone has their own pace and that should be respected. Why would you risk throwing away a highly compatible partner just because they didn't want to sleep with you right away?

My fiancé and I have been together for five years so far. For the first year of our relationship we didn't have sex. I was a virgin and he wasn't, but we would talk about having sex often. I wasn't ready when he was, but he never pressured me into doing something I didn't want to do or wasn't ready for...and he also never "banged other people on the side" because I wouldn't put out right away. He told me he would wait as long as he had to, and he would make my first time special and memorable for me. He was also fine with me wanting to wait because it showed that I respected myself; also, he had jumped into relationships and sex right away and those relationships never worked out. For that first year, we spent time getting to know each other--what we liked and disliked, what we wanted to do after high school, where we saw ourselves in five and ten years (along with going to the movies, or just hanging out and playing video games or going to the beach together). We wanted to build a strong foundation--friendship, love, and trust--before we jumped into bed together. Sex isn't just something physical, it's emotional and almost spiritual as well. Even today, he's glad that we waited a year to have sex, and because we took the time to date and to get to know each other first, we have a rock-solid friendship and highly-committed relationship, which makes the sex AMAZING because of that strong connection.

Every time you post something, you show your age and inexperience, and this is coming from someone who is only 22. Also, you sound just like my first high school boyfriend, so thank you for reminding me why I broke up with him and stopped dating guys who felt as though they deserved sex because we were together.

@JefWithOneF , This was an amazing post, and is actually very similar to something I've been working on for the past month or so called "Things I Wish I Was Told About Sex" because my grandparents, who raised me, did subscribe to the purity movement when I was younger and how I felt pressured into saying I would stay a virgin until I was married even though I just wanted to wait until I was ready and thought I found the one for me. Your daughter is one lucky girl to have such a sex-positive father, and more children need parents like you.

TXKathy
TXKathy

Right? I threw up in my mouth a little when I read that.

dwood2001
dwood2001

Before I was married, I only had sex inside a highly-committed relationship. Ironically, sillydaddy is doing a fantastic job of convincing me that I made the right choice! None of the people I pursued were even capable of doing something as shitty as banging someone on the side. Looking back, I guess it was a fantastic way of filtering out the chaff.

Only a fool throws away a fantastic and highly compatible partner because they have conservative views about sex. And people wonder why so few get married and stay married these days... good Lord!


sillydaddy
sillydaddy

@jssangel 

You may think of this. If you make an approach and call someone to date them, you essentially want to have full dating experience. It may take a bit of time to see if a few things are spot-on. Being dragged by your nose by someone who wants to date you but they need months or even years to have sex with you? Reverse the genders and ask yourself what would happen if a guy would make an approach and wait like an eunuch or say that he isn't ready for sex after the girl wants it,so he strings her along for months or years. I don't see a girl waiting for the guy to go through his hangups just to get to sex phase.  She'll bang other people on the side.

jssangel
jssangel

"It also depends on age. If I was older, or dating someone who is old, say 30 years old, I wouldn't put up with longer than a week of sex denial. She better tell me that she's on period as an excuse, or I'm out of there."

That's astonishing.  I imagine people must be lining up around the block to get with a romantic and respectful partner like you. 

JefWithOneF
JefWithOneF topcommenter

@sillydaddy @djrazorgirl Five percent of the population is still more than the population of NYC. Literally one out of every 50 people you know. Don't discount a problem you don't have as imaginary or not widespread just because you don't have it. 

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